Part 2: What is Story Work

Story Work is a narrative, embodied method of engaging your stories of childhood trauma and abuse created by Dr. Dan Allender. In this episode, me and fellow Story Work coach Amy Glazier talk about our experience with finding Story Work, Dan Allender, and The Allender Center. Both of us were trained and certified in Narrative Focused Trauma Care (Story Work) through the Allender Center and have spent the last year soaking in the many, layered benefits this deep, good work has brought to our lives as well as dreaming of ways to bring it to others. It's our hope that more people are able to experience the grief and goodness of Story Work just as we have. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is a podcast hosted by me, Jen Vrolman, where we talk about all of life: the good, the difficult, and sometimes the traumatic. Oftentimes I wonder if other people experience what I experience. In other words, I ask, am I really the only one? This is a space where we can feel more human and less alone as we navigate the beauty, the complexity, and the tragedy that life often throws our way. We're all in this together, so we might as well get a little bit honest and help each other through. Hi everyone, welcome back. I want to introduce you to my friend Amy Glazier. She's been married for 25 years. She's a mom to nine amazing kids, two who are grown. She has a family that's woven through biology and adoption. If you're wondering what her life looks like on a regular day, it's filled with connection, belonging, and finding beauty in every day. You'll usually find her around a table with friends, sipping coffee, or soaking in her slow farm life with her family. She's a story work coach. She works with moms to revisit their past, to make sense of their present, and to reimagine a more life-giving future. Nothing inspires her more than seeing someone set free from shame and embracing who they were always meant to be. I had the honor and privilege and pleasure of meeting Amy and interacting with her in narrative-focused trauma care training. And I'm just really excited for all of you to get to experience her beautiful presence. And so without further ado, Amy, hi.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Hi, Jen. I am so excited to be here. This is going to be so fun. I am so enjoyed getting to know you over the last year and a half. And I'm just excited about what's going to come out in our conversation today. I know what our conversations are like behind the scenes. And so I'm hoping that all the play and the joy and the wisdom comes forth.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So that's so right. That's that's all I could ever want. So I'm really honored that you're here, Amy. And the reason why you are here is because we are in a three-part series in our podcast. The first part was what is trauma? This is the second part, what is story work? And then the third part comes last, what is abuse? And those are three heavy hitters, but they're really important because they have a lot to do with this podcast and the work that we both offer. Because you also offer story work with people. So I wanted ask the question, what is story work? And you don't have to answer that right now, but that's what we're going to answer, hopefully, throughout this whole time together. So I think the first thing that I want to start with, Amy, is how did you find story work?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Such a great question. Oh my gosh. And it's like, how long do we have, right? I know. Um so I would just like set a little backdrop. I, like you said earlier, have nine kids, um, six of which are adopted. And so I had a season where I was teaching or maybe more like facilitating foster care trainings for parents to get licensed. And every training we would do this arousal relaxation cycle, right? So it's just this kind of wheel that they would put up on the screen that talks about the baby's needs. The baby cries, you know, the baby's in distress, the caregiver comes, you know, sues the baby, and then, you know, we start back over, we do that thousands of times a day with newborns. But all of a sudden, one day, this cycle somehow jumps off the screen for me. And it's like, oh my gosh, like this is the key to healing for my children. Um, and so kids that come from trauma, there's a lot of dysregulation, a lot. And so what I was experiencing in my home was lots of dysregulation, lots of chaos, lots of needs, sensory processing issues, all the things. And so what was being required of me to be able to co-regulate with my kids was so triggering. And so I just remember like thinking, I have to deal with my stuff. Like I have to be able to stay in a regulated state to be able to contain their big emotions, to be able to sit with them. Um, and I am not doing that well. And so I also have a similar experience with getting introduced to Adam Young's podcast. And so I was a lay counselor at our church and kind of simultaneously, this podcast was being introduced to me. And so, long story short, I it started just kind of opening my eyes to the Allender Center, what was going on with story work. I grabbed Dan's book to be told, his workbook, gathered up some of my pastor friends, and we just dove right into it, which then obviously wasn't enough. I needed more. And so that led me into jumping into level one with story work.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

I'm always amazed by how many different stories there are of ways that we find or we have found Dan Allender and the Allender Center. I mean, that's like with anything. If you have a school that you go to, or if you have a friend that you meet, it's that same concept that there's just so many different pathways that people take to show up somewhere. And I love and I resonate so deeply because I'm a mom with that connection to I am supposed to be their safe place. I am supposed to be able to regulate them. I can't even regulate myself. I don't know if you felt this way or experienced this, but I remember that being the very beginning of my journey of recognizing that I had a story that there was a lot more going on than what meets the eye. Because what was happening is I had a two-year-old, an almost two-year-old. He wasn't quite two, and I had a three-month-old, and so two under two, which is not easy. And I was alone in a new city. We had just moved away from a vibrant community of people that I actually wanted to stay with, but because of jobs, we had to move. And so that was a grief to me. Uh, we had no family and no friends. And I was a new mom, two under two, and I lost my mind. Like when I tell you that I bottomed out and had postpartum depression, and I think I had a mental breakdown. It is truly what it was. I'm not as ashamed to share that now, but back then it made me feel like there was something wrong with me. And that's how I showed up to myself what's wrong with me. People have said that when you have kids, it's just this natural connection and this natural motherly nurturing instinct. And I didn't have that. And I was like, I'm broken and something is wrong with me. And I truly had a mental and emotional and spiritual breakdown because I'm like, I am broken. And it that aligned with some teaching that I had grown up believing that I was bad and I was sinful, and I was just like, you know what? I am all of these things. I am a failure. I had such strong inner shame, like inner critic, Amy. And I was desperate. So I went to therapy and then I also found a mom's group. At the time it was called Mothers of Preschoolers. Now it has rebranded as Mom Co. Um, but I was a part of that group for seven years. And in that group, they offered videos and speakers and books, right? Resources that I was just gobbling up because I'm like, there's something wrong with me. I need to figure out what's wrong with me. And like you, long story short, how much time do we have? This mom's group that I was a part of, this connection, they offered a conference once a year. And I went to the conference and they had breakout sessions at this conference. And I went to a breakout session of David Thomas and Sissy Goff, their adolescent counselors from Nashville, standing room only. And I was like, who are these people? And why is everybody rushing to hear what they have to say? And then I heard what they had to say, and I was like, oh my gosh, you're giving me a template for motherhood. I've never had a template before that was safe and secure. I've never had a template before that I felt like I could follow. Right. That's trauma, that's abuse, that's the stories of our family of origin and of our lives. And so I picked up their books and immediately I was like, yeah, this is why they're standing room only. They're the day star counselors from Nashville. Like they are really good at what they do. And I was so curious to know who they learned from. Dan Alander is one of their mentors, along with Dan Siegel. And those two names popped up, and I was like, huh, Dan Alender. Dan Siegel. Okay, who are these people? And then a few years later, a friend sent me a text message with Adam Young's podcast, The Place We Find Ourselves. And then Adam Young talked about Dan Allender. And so I was like, why does this guy, this name, keep popping up? I looked up his podcast, and the rest is history. I just feel like all roads kept leading to the Allender Center, story work, being drawn into this community where we could find some healing. And so maybe the next part of even what I'm wondering for you, Amy, is what drew you to story work? I mean, you just described your pathway to story work, and so did I. What draws you to that particular work? Because it is particular. Story work is unique.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah. So I've always loved small group. We've always hosted in our home. And the thing that I've discovered over the years doing story work is that having a sense of belonging and creating a space for belonging is everything for me. And so at that very first gathering around this table that I'm sitting at right now, I saw the power of the vulnerability of women sharing their childhood stories of pain, trauma, rejection, isolation, silencing, sharing stories that have never been shared before. And a coming together, a grieving, a justice rising up in our hearts for one another, that I it was like next level connection for me. And so I was all in.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. Your description of that is my experience of the story workshop. So the Allender Center has many different offerings. First of all, the Allender Center is out of Seattle, Washington. And the Allender Center and the method of story work was created by Dan Allender and Kathy Lorzell. And it has become this little hub of healing. Their tagline, I believe it's in most of their emails from the staff or from anybody that's communicating through the Allender Center, they say that they believe that healing from the deepest wounds is possible. And I mean, I just feel like I want to repeat it. Like to believe that healing from the deepest wounds is possible suggests that turning to face those wounds is really important. And the Allender Center exists to turn and face the wounds from our past and how they are impacting our present and where we're going in our future. And I think that I was aware when I found the Allender Center. I was aware I started with shame. I was aware that there was something wrong with me. And I was aware that it may have stemmed from something in my past, but that was just about all the language that I had. How about you? Like, did you start with that kind of language? Or how did you enter in? How did you start?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

No, I think it was more of just I am being invited into my everyday life to hold, to be a container for more than what I have capacity for. And I am doing this for a very long time. So I need to figure this out. And I think even just the powerlessness of I can't change anybody else. I mean, neurodivergent brains, right? Neurospicy brains, whatever, however you want to call them, it's like the traditional forms of parenting, they don't work. And so I have to figure out how to show up different and how to offer something greater to them that I don't have access to at this point.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love it because it's such a different place from where I started. To me, I'm just picturing like you're wanting to expand. You're wanting to grow in your capacity to hold space for these babies that are coming to you and are in need of care and attunement and attention. And I don't know, what other words would you offer? Like what is it that you felt like you were lacking in that story work has helped you to grow in?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

I mean, I think there was just such an awareness that I was not doing this well. Like there is just such an awareness, right? I cannot stay in the big emotions. Like I will just, but you know, again, we're talking about story work. And that goes back to my story. You know, as I wrote several stories, like there was a common theme of my voice being silenced. And so, you know, in that space, like there is no containment for my big emotions. How in the world am I gonna offer containment for anybody else in theirs? And so that that was it for me. It was just like I am being called to something bigger, harder, like more like I just didn't have it. Like that's the only thing. It was just like I can't do this. I can't pull myself up by my bootstraps and make attunement, delight, containment happen. Yeah. I have to figure out why is my lid flipping all day long.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Why is my lid flipping all day long? And if there is not another phrase that parents hear, I resonate. I think I'm I'm getting ahead a little bit, but this is like I've now had and we've had three years of narrative-focused trauma care training. And before that, for me, I had one and a half years of clinical therapy, EMDR. I am right now on the other side of five years of, I would say intense but kind work at exploring the the what behind that phrase. Why was my lid flipping? I didn't feel a connection to my children. And it had nothing to do with my beautiful and precious children. Like my heart breaks when I even say those words because it had nothing to do with my love for them. It had everything to do with my capacity and my capacity to connect to them or to attach to them. I began to learn over time, wasn't because I was broken or flawed or terrible or bad. It was because of what had happened to me in my past and also what hadn't happened. It was both the trauma and the abuse from my past and also the trauma of what I did not receive. Not having a template for nurture was not because I was a broken human being who just couldn't nurture someone. Not having a template for nurture was rooted in some really heartbreaking stories from my family of origin, from my mother, and from my father. That's hard. So when we are talking like this, there's the awareness, right? Why am I flipping the lid all the time? Why am I doing X? Why am I doing Y? What is going on inside of me or outside of me? Like, why can't I keep a relationship? Why can't I keep a job? It's this curiosity around like what is happening here? And then the Allender Center and their training and their workshops, specifically narrative-focused trauma care training, concentrates on the stories of our lives as really the setup what we've gone through has set us up to be where we are right now. How else would you add on to that? We're talking kind of like bird's eye view here of what story work is, but we're working to put the meat on the bones of why this work matters. Like what who would do this? First of all, this is crazy. Who would say I'm gonna go back and look at these painful stories and revisit the pain for what? Why? Like how how would you even answer that, Amy?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I mean, I think I was, I I honestly don't know that I really knew what I signed up for, if I'm being honest, when I stepped into level one. And I would say when I was being drawn in that direction, it really was for the sake of my children. I don't know, and I think that they're like, oh my gosh, we could talk about so many things, right? It's like even just like in motherhood, this way that there's a subtle like disappearing or a becoming, you know, small that just happens along the way. But I think I would say now I'm in this kind of reclamation stage, right? There's just so many stages of it where I'm like actually coming back to regaining my voice. Like it's about me now becoming more embodied, checking in with myself, all the things. But then I really think it was I can't do my life. I can't do it well. And this is really important. And so, I mean, it's a whole other story when you step into level one. And, you know, I think of my own experiences of being a small group with men. Like when you come into a space where you are being invited to share a story of sexual abuse or sexual harm, and there are men present in the room. I mean, I I was so shocked at the level of shame and fear and protection that came up in me. Like, so I guess I not to get too far off into the weeds, but I think the point I would want to say is I had no idea what I signed up for.

unknown 20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yes. You're crazy, but I probably didn't know how crazy it was.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

On the front end.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

That's right. That's right. And I I think that for me, I was always drawn to story. I loved to read when I was little. I loved to read stories. And then, you know, I grew up in church. And so I heard the word like testimony a lot. And it was always in terms of Jesus and salvation and the testimony of life before and life after. But I think I was drawn into just story in general, like knowing a person where they came from. And I grew up, I think, a pretty deep thinker and a deep feeler. And when I got to college, like I loved going out with my friends or having coffee and just being like, where did you grow up and what did you do? And and that's just kind of always been something natural for me. A friend of mine years ago said that when she first met me, she was like, This lady is nosy. And it was because that was storied for her. Like people who had asked questions like that before were doing it because they had an agenda or because they wanted something from her, or they were being sneaky about the kind of information that they got. And for me, it wasn't nosy, it was just I To connect with you, you're a human being in front of me, and I know that there's more to this life than what's the weather and how is your job today? Where'd you grow up and what were those experiences like? And how'd you meet your spouse if you have one? And um, what was your your decision to be single if you're single? And it's anyway, I just wanted to add that in because I think that there was there's always been a draw for me to story and to backstories. And I think, oh man, isn't even as I'm saying that out loud, I think what's underneath that and what might be the other side of that coin for me is that I had always wished that people would consider my backstory. Oh, I'd always wished my whole life that people knew behind the scenes what was going on. Yeah. And even as I'm saying that, Amy, I'm like, yeah, that's that's just more the truth. Is I think that what draws me into this kind of work is both I want to offer it to others and also I have longed my whole life for it to be offered to me and for people to see.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

To really see me and to really see what I have lived with and what I have experienced. Oh man, there's so much to this.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I know. I'm like, it's just it's so vast and complex and beautiful, and there's so many ups and downs and turns. And right, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Let's break it down for people. Let's I want to give you logistics for people that are listening. So the Allender Center before 2020 only offered workshops and training in person. So if you signed up for workshops and trainings, you would get on an airplane and you would fly out to Seattle and you would sit through a four-day weekend, or if you were in their training, you would fly out there four times a year over four intensive days. And that was considered their year of training, right? So post-COVID, they offered online training. And that's when I joined because I could join from the comfort of my own home without the added expense of getting on an airplane and then getting a hotel. And so they offered the training. The first thing I did was the workshop. And the workshop was a four-day weekend, Thursday through Sunday. And it was a taste into what story work is. It's called the story workshop. And then for me, that was the taste that I needed of goodness, belonging, community, bringing stories that were hard, but there was also this beauty that surrounded it that it was like, man, this is the good stuff. This is deep and this is good. And I wanted more. So I applied for their training program. Their training program is narrative-focused trauma care training. And there's level one, level two, and level three. And by the time you get to level three, you can also apply to be certified in narrative-focused trauma care. So that's a lot, but I wanted to add some logistics because as we're talking about the Allender Center and training, this is what we did. We showed up online for four weekends, and it was a mix of teaching and small group interaction. It was a mix of both receiving the method of story work. Like that's the shorthand for narrative-focused trauma care. You both were taught the method and then you went into small group and then you did the method. Like everybody wrote a story. And it was a short story about a moment of harm from your childhood. Amy, do you remember your first story? You don't have to talk about what the story is, but do you remember one of your first stories?

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, I think I do. And I actually brought this story to a small group just the other day. And it's just crazy how many times you can bring the same story, and there's just so much depth in it. But it was just, I think the thing that stands out to me is like it was such a broad stroke story. I was so like we talked about 30,000 feet up in telling the story, but it was as close as I could get to the story, right? And that's a whole conversation in itself. Like how close to the ground, how in the dirt can we get?

SPEAKER_00 26:34

And so have you ever been asked before to write a story about childhood harm? Like had that ever been a method that you had engaged before story work?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Just the the book, you know, when we did Dan's book and the book was not as what would be the word, like structured as uh like what would we would be invited into. But the book was so powerful because he's asking 20 questions every chapter. And so you're getting to tell stories, you're getting to build timelines, like, you know, all of these different things you're kind of getting to add to that I think were so helpful in me being able to even tell a broad stroke story. It's like I needed to like prime the pump, I guess, if you will. And so yeah, I've just seen how my growth in story work has happened, but it's been from bringing fragmented stories. Like I've got a hundred or two hundred words from this weekend with my biological dad. But I've I have a couple hundred words from four weekends, and I can put those all together and I can create a story. And so yeah, it's really ebbed and flowed for me from 30,000 feet up to getting closer, closer to the dirt to stories that were soft disclosure. Let me just give you a line in this story to lead you to think that something far worse has happened to me. And let me see how you handle that. You know, and then slowly working my way into, and then he opened my bedroom door.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah. You know. And what Amy is getting into is one of the reasons behind writing your story. Trauma and abuse are such wordless experiences. Sometimes when things happen to us, there's lots of things that happen with our brain and with our body to keep us safe and to help us to survive. Uh, also, like when somebody's like, oh, I can't even really talk about that. It's because you can't. It's because your language center shuts down and your emotions center takes over. Like it's the amygdala, the fire alarm of your brain is going off. And the story writing portion of story work is the skill and the practice of being able to put language to a wordless experience, to be able to put language to what your body has known to be true for so long. And for some of us, we we don't have, like I think the guide is like 600 to a thousand words. And many people that I've met that I work with and also that I've been in training with are like, I don't have 600 words. How do I? Well, then you just bring what you do have. And sometimes we do have more words. We've just never really been invited into considering the harm of the story, which I think is another layer of story work that life happens at a breakneck pace. We're busy, we fly forward, 10 years pass in an instant. So to pause and to have an intentional time to think about one moment, one story, and how it could have impacted you is again crazy and also not common. We're not we're not doing that. Like we don't slow down enough in our lives to consider the impact of something. I think there are some of us who are walking around with stories, experiences, sensations in our body, memories, and we're like, we know that we have been jacked up from something, we know it, but it's hard for us to put language around how, like the specifics of it. And so the story writing portion, you're right, is just this like invitation over time into not looking at it from 30,000 feet, but looking at it with gentleness and compassion with a fine-tooth comb. I think what's coming up for me is knowing that people listening or that even people that are critics of story work or even critics of clinical therapy, which is different than story work, it's similar in some ways, but different. I can feel the criticism of why, why, why does this matter? Like, isn't just the past in the past? And I don't know, I'm I didn't prepare you for any of these questions, but my heart is just leading us into this direction of anybody that's listening that might think, like, isn't this a waste of time? Why would you want to come down out of a 30,000-foot point of view to a fine-tooth comb to looking at the details of a story? Why, why would any crazy person want to do that?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

I mean, you know that that's where the harm is. It's in the details, it's in the particularity of the story. One thing I'll circle circle back to is you were talking about the 600 to a thousand words, like in the logistics of story writing, that really just didn't make sense to me. You know, I would also be one of the people that would struggle with 600, right? You've got the people that are like, how am I going to take 2000 words and get more clarity and make more sense of that? You know, which is the beauty of the constraints. But for me, I am trying so hard. I've got my little number count on my computer, trying to get to 600. And so what was so profound for me was having to go back. I write the story and I have to go back and I have to actually get a little more grounded and present in it to be able to tell a more fuller story. And so now it's like we've we pulled into the gravel driveway and I could hear the crunching of the gravel under the tires, right? I could hear the car doors shutting in the middle of the night. That, you know, all of a sudden, like your senses are awakened as I'm having to get closer and closer and closer, which is also bringing my body into more of an embodied experience. And so I like that was just amazing for me to be able to like explain why. Like, why do we want to get close to the dirt? Like, why do we want to get grounded in the story?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah. You described the gravel, and I could feel like a pit in my stomach because I wrote a story that began with me pulling into a boyfriend's driveway. And that's what you're talking about is the embodied experience of when we are harmed, it's such profound harm that one of the ways that we cope with that is by like not ever wanting to be harmed again and not really ever wanting that wound to be seen or touched, or even like, I don't want to go back to that place because it hurts so bad. And of course, is what I would say to that is of course. And that is so much a part of the invitation because the movement into like engaging your story is bringing that written story full of those sensory related experiences into a group, whether you're one-on-one with a facilitator or a coach, or whether you're in a group situation, which is we were always in a group situation in our training, but you read the story and all these eyes are on you as you're reading a story. That is a lived experience, your body is activated. I don't know what you feel, but like I can feel myself remembering, wanting to hide, remembering, like I both want care because trauma and abuse happen because we experience wounding and we're not cared for. What's happening for you, Amy, as you're like listening to that? Like, what was your experience of having all of these eyes on you?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I mean, I think just as you kind of shifted into the group experience, I'm hoping that those who are listening are even aware or sensing that is happening between you and I right now, as I, you know, as you are sharing about your love for story. All of a sudden, what's coming up in me is I was a hairstylist for 20 years. And oh my gosh, I didn't realize that I have been living in story with people forever. And I think there's something so powerful that brings us out of isolation and into that place of belonging when you find yourself in somebody else's story and you go, like me too. Oh, we're all created from the same thing. And your story may not have the same particularities as mine, but we find each other in each other's stories. And that is so freeing in delivering people from shame. And yeah, I mean, I could I could go into all of that, like the measure of shame that was like, I mean, I remember bringing my first sexual abuse story, and it was all that I could do to read the story and not pass out. Like I remember telling myself, like, please don't pass out. What are these people gonna do? They're on the other side of the screen if my head goes down because I'm telling the story and I am immediately right back in that room with all the fear and all the terror. And then to be able to sit, I mean, I I was so thankful for my facilitator that year because she was attuned enough to know I am leaving the building. Like I need to be grounded, I need to be held and you know, and contained. And what was so amazing was referencing the men that were in my group that year. I didn't even know what I needed. But when one of the men in the group said, I want to punch that man in the face, I mean, I was undone. Like I had never felt that kind of protection in my life. I didn't even know I needed. I didn't even know that was an option. I think that's part of story work is like, oh, you just gave me an imagination for something I didn't even know was possible. Yes. And so that reimagining the yeah, we're we're we're sitting with people that are helping us renarrate our story and tell a more honest version.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

That's right. Yeah, you the way that you just described that, Amy, is oh, spot on. I brought a story one one weekend about um as a kid, I was so afraid of the dark. And I really just like wanted to cuddle up next to someone and be safe. And I would army crawl through the hallways of my home to sneak into somebody's room only to sleep on the floor because I knew that if I would get caught, I would be sent directly back to my room. Oh I knew that like my parents' bed was not an option. My parents' floor wasn't even an option. No, so I army crawled to my older sister's room. Her bed was not an option, her floor was not an option, so I hid among stuffed animals and I slept for the night. Right? And I didn't know how sad or terrifying the story was. I just told it because it's what I did so many times when I was little. And I remember my group members and my facilitator, like their eyes filled with tears. And my facilitator got really close to the screen and had her hand on her heart, and she was like, Oh, Jen. And then she just like paused and looked at me. And I had never been looked at like that before. Like it wasn't pity, it was care. Yeah, it wasn't dismissiveness, it was engagement. It was that the word we're using is attunement, like you're aware that this little body is searching for some care and gets turned away every time. I'm terrified of the dark. I'm terrified of it. And all I want is for somebody to hold me. And even though I'm bringing this story of being really young, there is this sense that all of my group members, their eyes, their presence is holding me. They are holding me because it is scary to tell that story. It is sad to tell the story of not receiving comfort. And where I had to find the comfort was on my own with stuffed animals, inanimate objects. And so, like you, like I had never even understood, like, story work is so layered because it reaches back into this younger part of you, but then it also reaches forward into this present part of you. And it creates a new imagination for a new ending for what you did always deserve. And although you can't go back and change that nobody comforted me in that moment but stuffed animals, the comfort of my group members allowed for me to receive that comfort. Madeline LeIng says that we we are every age that we have ever been. And it's just like in this beautiful, holy, difficult to explain, but backed up by neuroscience moment. You know, this care is reaching all the way back and also right here in the present and and carrying carrying me forward into my future.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Jen, I'm so curious as to what your embodied experience was with all of those eyes.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Tears.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Tears. I mean, I wanted to hide because that's so much of what trauma and abuse has done in my life, is I want so desperately to be seen and to be held and to be cared for. But it has come at such a high cost, and sometimes it hasn't come at all. And so whether it's come at a really high cost of rejection and humiliation, or whether it hasn't come at all, and there's this desert when I experience care back then, like three years ago, four years ago, I would have wanted to hide. And I think now I do want to hide, but I'm also more aware of how much I want it and how much my heart wants to be open to receiving care. So I think because I've experienced good care over the last three years, um, it has rebuilt my trust to be seen a little bit more. How about you, Amy? Like, what would you say are other takeaways as we end our time together? What has been a gift that you've taken away from receiving story work?

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah, it's interesting. I feel some like tenderness right now as you're asking that. Like, yeah, putting right, it doesn't story work just surprise us, right? Once we give once we unlock that door and give access to what's coming forward and what's coming up. And I'm just thinking to myself, what started me on that journey? Was such a strong desire to be able to hold, care for, attune all the things that I've said related to my children and how I've learned so much through my child children, you know, in the sense of, you know, I would be in a story group and I would have this experience. And because I grew up not feeling safe, tears are really hard to come by for me. And so that is one thing that I have loved so much and that has shifted so much in me is when somebody else can offer tears on my behalf because it's so costly if you grew up in a home that was not safe to put your sword down and to feel it's so vulnerable, right? To not protect. But I'm just thinking of, you know, sharing these different stories of uh a parent sneaking into my bedroom at night. And then all of a sudden I, you know, am I with one of my little boys and he's lost a tooth? And he's like, I'm gonna put my tooth under my pillow and the tooth area is gonna come and whatever. And we're terrible. We have so many. We totally forget to put the dollar, like we're working on it, people. We put the dollar by the kitchen sink. But it's like, okay, so I have a an older daughter that's downstairs, and I and I say, Hey, can you just slip this dollar under his pillow once he goes to sleep? You're down there, whatever. Sure, sure. And a little bit later, 30 minutes later, my little one comes up the stairs and he's like, Mom, like this other child, this this older daughter, she's being so weird. She keeps sneaking into my bedroom. I don't know what she's doing. And just the contrast of I have an I have a parent that's sneaking into my room at night and I stay frozen and I stay silent and I say nothing. And then I'm looking at my little boy who's gonna march up the stairs and let me know something weird's going on, and he's not okay with it. And so the healing that's come from was what brought me into it is also my present-day lived experience. Oh my gosh, yes, like I should have been able to walk out my door and go down the hallway and say, This is not okay. You know, and so yeah, it's just uh, isn't it such a beautiful journey?

SPEAKER_00 46:28

It is, it's layered. It's so layered, it's so layered. And I think a great gift that I walked away from story work with that um oh, I just can't believe I lived 35 years without it is compassion for myself. Yes, I cannot believe how I survived with criticizing myself or feeling a feeling and rushing to not feel it or freaking out because I was feeling it. What's wrong with me? I can't feel this. Oh my gosh, this is this is never gonna end. It's I just like panicked. And if I wasn't panicking, I was saying all kinds of terrible things to myself, like, you're so stupid. You are weak and dramatic, and you're so sensitive. Like I would just say these things to myself all the time, and it would not help me, by the way. Like most of the symptoms that I had in my life, you know, the flying off the handle or eating disorder or relational chaos. Like it was all still there. And I think that over the last three years, to have this idea that you would approach your life with compassion, approach your life with tenderness of, oh, I wonder how you felt about that. And that must have been so hard to be so scared and so alone or so sad, or even the opposite. Like sometimes in story work, people will notice how delightful you are in a story, and you didn't even notice yourself as delightful, like playful or curious, or spicy, or risky, or creative, or like the truth teller. And they see these parts of your story come out, and you're like, damn, that's right. I have been this my whole life. I have been really delightful and good. And these moments that have harmed us have lessened, muted, snuffed out that goodness. And I think like holding space for the tenderness that I've experienced from other people, I've learned from them. They've been compassionate to me, they've been tender to me, they've been kind to me. And I've learned how to do that for myself. I'm learning how to do that for my kids or for my relationships and showing up more compassionate and curious and tender. Again, so many layers. Amy, I know that being with you, like your presence, is so safe to me and so expansive and tender and curious. I want people to have the opportunity, if they want to work with you, to reach out to you. And how would they do that if they're interested in story work with Amy Glazier?

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Yeah. So you can find me at my website, amiglazier.com, or on my Instagram, the altered table, um, Amy Glazier comes up there also. And there's some links where you can reach out and connect with me.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah. Before we sign off, is there any one last thing that you would want to say to anybody listening who is just even remotely curious about this method?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

I mean, I think just the way that you and I were led into this work, it just felt very invitational. And so I would just say to those that are feeling the nudge or feeling the invitation to step into some like very risky, at times terrorizing terrain that you are not alone and there are others that are saying yes that will come alongside of you. And it's just so worth it. And so, yeah, just being aware of the way things are lining up for you. Like you're not listening to this podcast for no reason, right? And so, can you just kind of hold with some awareness? Like, where is that bringing up curiosity for you? And yeah, I don't know. Jen, I just think you're so brave. I just want to say that. And you and I have had lots of conversations about that, but just stepping into like we are fumbling our way through, like showing up in our life. I don't know how old you are, Jen, but I'm in my late 40s. And it's like, oh my gosh, here I am showing up in my late 40s. Yeah. And it feels fantastic. And so there's just so much fruit from this work and growing and trusting your gut, you know, growing in safety, being able to take greater risks, feeling alive. And so, yeah, that's kind of that's just what is present for me right now.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

It's beautiful. Thank you for saying that I'm brave and for putting language to showing up in our 40s because I just turned 40 in October of last year. And I know that I can feel late to the party a lot. Like, I look around me and I'm like, are other people at this party already? Like, how did I, why did I get a late invitation? And yet we have the stories that we have, and I'm here now, and I'm gonna continue to learn, you know. So this episode is a drop in the bucket of what story work is. It's a drop in the bucket of what it adds to your life. You could listen to two other people have a different podcast on story work, and you're gonna hear a different facet. You're gonna hear something else. And I think that's the beauty. It's like a diamond. You turn it and it's different in different lights. You know, it just is a treasure. And I'm so glad to Dan Alender and Kathy Lorzel and all of the other teachers and staff at the Allender Center who put so much work into saying it is worth it to engage the wounds of your past so that you can heal and be here present. And so that you can have a future that is alive, not just happy, joyful, willing to embrace the sorrow, willing to sit in the grief and not run from it, willing to hold space with other people and not turning the face away from difficult moments and stories, right? Like we're not just happy people that only show up in happy moments. We're people that are rooted in joy and purpose and meaning, and also saying life can bottom out, and we get to be here for each other in those moments, too. So, Amy, thank you for hanging in there.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

So fun, Jen. Thank you so much for inviting me.